[deleted]
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 Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 09:36 am
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CMdeux
Moderator1 Member is offline Sure, the voices aren't real-- but sometimes they have good ideas.
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 10:36 am
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Thank you-- I was really hoping that one of y'all that have done this with milk would chime in on TIME and TEMP.
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." -Robert Louis Stevenson
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CMdeux
Moderator1 Member is offlineSure, the voices aren't real-- but sometimes they have good ideas.
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 10:38 am
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Nov 3rd, 2010 at 07:56 am, [deleted] wrote:
Wow! You are definitely a scientist CM!
For our baked milk challenge, I made a cake with a can of sweetened condensed milk in it. Brought the entire cake and the label from the can with me to the appt & let the allergist do the math! Never crossed my mind that there could be variables like the oven temp.
Is there any way you could get her head around this so that you don't need the control group for psychosomatic reasons?
NOT.
Allergist is a scientist, too. 
Seriously, her symptoms tend to be on the weird side-- mostly over in the neurological column of the grading chart.
The placebo effect is so potent that our allergist definitely won't do a challenge without doing it blind. I don't blame him. It's just better practice.
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." -Robert Louis Stevenson
USA
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 10:45 am
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I have no idea, since it seems like our DS may never be able to do a baked egg or dairy challenge. Good luck with the challenge.
From what I have read, both the cooking time and the temp are both very important.
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MandCmama
Member Member is offline It's been that kinda day!
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 11:40 am
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CM,
You realize we're all chewing our fingernails with you I mean, given your DD's hx, if she passes, then, well, it may be possible for any of us! Best wishes to you and DD...and I agree completley- peanut, smenut- egg is SO MUCH HARDER!!!!
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DS#1- 4 yo allergic to peanuts/avoiding tree nuts
DS#2- 2 yo allergic to egg
Pennsylvania, USA
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maeve
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 03:16 pm
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Nov 1st, 2010 at 07:59 pm, CMdeux wrote:
... well, I have six weeks to chew my fingernails. I'll be honest here; I have VERY LITTLE confidence that DD will pass.
In fact, I am actually kind of worried that this could result in truly catastrophic anaphylaxis.
But, you know what?
She's 11.
She'll be going to college in just a few years. It'd sure be nice if she was able to eat bread from a store... eat fast food... not worry about eating stuff made in other peoples' kitchens (provided she's covered the bases with pn, of course)...
I mean, egg is just in SO many other things. Well, y'all know. PA people might not. But anyone with an egg allergy knows why THIS is the one that I'd pick to have *poof* gone.
I mean, I don't even need to THINK about that one, I hate the egg allergy so much.
Anyway. Kind of freaking out a little tonight, though. 
Sorry, just seeing this. That's awesome news. I really hope she passes for many reasons. You're right, it would really open up a host of dining options for your DD. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Is your DD's allergist doing the challenge? Have her RAST numbers come down?
BTW, your DD will actually have her challenge before my DD (Jan. 4). We've only been waiting 18 months for our challenge and I made the appointment a year ago. However, I'm more than willing to wait to work with a staff I trust, KWIM.
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"Oh, I'm such an unholy mess of a girl."
Virginia, US
DD: eggs, peanuts, tree nuts; OAS to cantaloupe and cucumber
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CMdeux
Moderator1 Member is offlineSure, the voices aren't real-- but sometimes they have good ideas.
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 03:59 pm
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Yes, her allergist.
We don't know what her RAST numbers are currently. He didn't see the point. The last round (~18 mo back) they were about 8 kU/dL...
so they are probably within range of a challenge anyway. They had been falling-- but then we loosened up on some things at about that time, so it's possible that her RAST would have spiked again anyway from occult exposures.
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." -Robert Louis Stevenson
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suevv
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 04:56 pm
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CMdeux,
Pardon me - your science is showing! That is quite a fine experimental design my friend.
I do see one hitch that I know from pecan pie baking experience (yes - this was in the days BEFORE allergy. I could never bake a pecan pie in my kitchen now). I have cooked identical pies (a single batch split into two pie shells) in two different ovens in one house. Both with thermometers that read 350 degrees. Baking outcome was significantly different. I later decided this was the result of different oven geometry and heat flow. Or possibly different thermostat responses to temperature drops (e.g., one clicks on to reheat when temp drops by 5 degrees, the other when temp drops by 7 degrees, or something).
ANYWAY - what I'm getting at is that I would definitely cook both batches in the same oven. So unless your neighbor has an identical oven, I'd do both batches in her oven. AND I would preheat the oven for at least 30 minutes before putting the brownies in, in order to stabilize the temp.
Make sense?
Good luck - I so hope you get some good data AND a good result.
Sue
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CMdeux
Moderator1 Member is offlineSure, the voices aren't real-- but sometimes they have good ideas.
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 05:27 pm
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Oh, that is a good point.
I'll have to plan to CLEAN the oven before I use it, then-- that way I can KNOW that the control batch is safe...
(We know from experience that unclean ovens can aerosolize nut and egg proteins inside-- and with nut, at least, that's plenty to cause reactions on "un-covered" baked stuff.)
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." -Robert Louis Stevenson
USA
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my3guys
Member Member is offline I thought I saw a cupcake!
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 06:16 pm
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Nov 2nd, 2010 at 11:15 pm, CMdeux wrote:
Is 325F for 30 minutes about right?
For mini-muffins, I mean.
I have no idea.
Don't know if this helps at all...the Mt. Sinai study has me put in 1/4 cup milk powder to 1 cup flour, with applesauce and other ingredients to make six heaping regular sized muffins cooked at 350 for 30 minutes.
You may want to try a test batch before all this in your house without egg at that temp for that time and see what it comes out like?
Also, I would bet the batch without egg will cook differently than the one with egg. I think you said you're making a batch without egg too right Sorry....my brain is functioning even lower than normal these days...
Where is the challenge taking place? Office? Hopsital? The Mt. Sinai Challenge takes place in the hospital and they insert an IV in case they want to deliver meds that way during a reaction. Don't know if this would be something to consider?
Good luck with it all CM. I'm sorry it's so stressful.  And her sensitivity is that high, but I understand why you want to do the challenge.
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2 children with allergies covering milk, eggs, peanuts,treenuts, soy, oas, seasonal allergies
1 child with chronic reflux
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maeve
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 06:52 pm
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Nov 3rd, 2010 at 05:27 pm, CMdeux wrote:
Oh, that is a good point.
I'll have to plan to CLEAN the oven before I use it, then-- that way I can KNOW that the control batch is safe...
(We know from experience that unclean ovens can aerosolize nut and egg proteins inside-- and with nut, at least, that's plenty to cause reactions on "un-covered" baked stuff.)
Could you bake the control batch first and then do the egg batch? Then you'd just have to clean it once after you've baked the egg batch.
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"Oh, I'm such an unholy mess of a girl."
Virginia, US
DD: eggs, peanuts, tree nuts; OAS to cantaloupe and cucumber
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CMdeux
Moderator1 Member is offlineSure, the voices aren't real-- but sometimes they have good ideas.
Posts: 27,544
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 06:58 pm
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Well, I'll probably just do my control batch here at home, since there's no concern about getting them "cooked long enough" or anything... and yes, egg-free can change baking times all on its own, so matching the precise baking times isn't really going to be feasible anyway.
But I think I'll still want to clean an oven. Hadn't thought about that-- though I'm sure I would have when presented with the friend's oven (I always clean them in vacation rentals).
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." -Robert Louis Stevenson
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maeve
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 06:59 pm
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Nov 3rd, 2010 at 03:59 pm, CMdeux wrote:
Yes, her allergist.
We don't know what her RAST numbers are currently. He didn't see the point. The last round (~18 mo back) they were about 8 kU/dL...
so they are probably within range of a challenge anyway. They had been falling-- but then we loosened up on some things at about that time, so it's possible that her RAST would have spiked again anyway from occult exposures.
I've found with DD that her RAST numbers have gone up and down from year-to-year and it doesn't correllate to whether she's had an accidental exposure. She had no known exposures this year and no reactions and her numbers went up a bit.
Does the doctor's office have a particular item they want you to bake or recipe to use? We haven't gotten our info for the challenge yet but when discussing it at DD's annual visit, I got the sense there was a recipe we needed to follow.
I too think the egg-free batch will take longer to cook. I've just noticed that when I had to egg-free in baking that it took longer.
Oh the other thing to consider (and one I plan to ask Hopkins about): the size of the egg. I would imagine that in the absence of being told what size to use that they would want you to use medium size eggs. Large, extra large, and jumbo eggs would obviously have more egg protein as they have a greater volume of egg.
I'm kind of with you about fretting over prep for the challenge. I haven't baked with eggs in 9 years and haven't done so in the kitchen in our current house. I'm already fretting about having to buy the dozen eggs, what bowls and pans to use, etc.
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"Oh, I'm such an unholy mess of a girl."
Virginia, US
DD: eggs, peanuts, tree nuts; OAS to cantaloupe and cucumber
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CMdeux
Moderator1 Member is offlineSure, the voices aren't real-- but sometimes they have good ideas.
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 07:53 pm
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My feeling was similar, Maeve-- but then when discussing it further, it was just kind of "just make the recipe* like normal, and then make it with an egg substitution."
* meaning-- whatever recipe we chose.
It basically needs to be something that DD will eat-- and it needs to be something that works pretty well already in an egg-free version.
I looked up about what eggs are, too, Maeve.
A "large" egg is about 55-65 g. This seems to be fairly standard, anyway.
Honestly, I'm not sure that it MATTERS very much-- as long as it's reproducible and precise enough so that you can calculate how much protein is in the challenge sample.
Obviously, heating and fully cooking the egg is pretty critically important. Just like in the milk challenges.
KWIM?
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CMdeux
Nov 3rd, 2010 at 07:58 pm »
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." -Robert Louis Stevenson
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CMdeux
Moderator1 Member is offlineSure, the voices aren't real-- but sometimes they have good ideas.
Posts: 27,544
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Posted: Nov 3rd, 2010 at 08:14 pm
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More data--
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl
This says that a whole fresh egg is 12.56 g "protein" per 100 g of mass.
On the other hand, 'commodity' mixed egg (ie-- useable egg mass) is much higher in protein on a mass basis--
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl
35.6%, in fact. That's GOT to be cooked, though-- the water percentage is only 2.78 % and that can't possibly be correct for whole raw egg.
Ahh-- here's the one I needed:
frozen whole egg.
No shell-- 11.95 g protein per 100 g of raw egg. 75% water. That's sounding more like it. Unfortunately, only 2 data points, and therefore no stats.
The first one (fresh egg) had 12 measurements in the set, however, and the relative error was about 0.8%, so I think that's pretty reliable.
I'm searching HERE in case anyone is curious.
« Last Edited by
CMdeux
Nov 3rd, 2010 at 08:24 pm »
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." -Robert Louis Stevenson
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Baked egg challenge... - (Read 8,495 Times)
